Last Updated on October 14, 2024
In this special episode of Immigration & Mobility Decoded, Dick Burke, CEO of Envoy Global, sat down to chat with Anupam Singhal, CEO and President of Worldwide ERC (WERC), one of the largest groups for talent mobility professionals and experts.
Singhal became WERC’s President & CEO this year. He brings a wealth of experience, strategic vision and a proven track record of driving organizational excellence. He also has a strong commitment to advancing the interests of the talent mobility community. Anupam holds an MBA from Harvard Business School and a B.S. from Carnegie Mellon and the London School of Economics. He has traveled to over 30 countries as a business traveler and expat.
In this episode, Burke and Singhal discuss key industry trends, such as the convergence of immigration, business visas and mobility tax services. As mobility and HR departments face growing responsibilities, Singhal emphasizes the need for upskilling, continuing education and leveraging technology to streamline processes.
They also highlight global talent shortages, especially in Europe and the Asia Pacific (APAC), where demographic shifts drive companies to attract talent abroad. As automation and AI advance, both agree that the human element remains crucial for service quality. The episode ends with a preview of WERC’s upcoming 60th-anniversary event featuring workshops, advocacy and policy discussions.
Below is a lightly edited transcript of our recent podcast, which is available on YouTube:
Dick Burke:
Hello, and thanks for joining this episode of Immigration & Mobility Decoded. I’m particularly delighted about today’s guest, Anupam Singhal. Anupam is the recently named head of WERC.
Tell me, for folks who don’t know your story, I think you really bring an amazing background. So many people in the mobility space are excited about what you’re going to do for Mobility, and for WERC in particular. Give us the Anupam backstory.
Anupam Singhal:
I started my career as an investment professional, and I trained as a private equity investor in technology companies globally. I’ve worked with high-growth businesses and private equity firms based in New York, London, and emerging markets like India. I moved around a bit, in terms of relocation, assignments and as an expat. At the time, I didn’t know terms like “relocation assignment.” I was just an ordinary employee going places and doing what needed to be done. I assumed others were ensuring that I had the appropriate visas, tax compliance and all that stuff taken care of. At one point I had a domicile in one place and residency in another. I got trapped in a web of compliance nightmares, which was a painful and expensive mistake for me and my employer.
I eventually left my private equity gig to start a company called Monaeo with my co-founder. Monaeo used location data analytics to help with compliance automation with business travel and extended business travel. In 2020, Monaeo combined with Topia, and we shared a vision of creating a comprehensive talent mobility platform.
Burke:
You just touched on two things that we think about at Envoy, which are convergence (a singular solution for immigration, business visas and mobility tax) and the role of private investment in service-heavy businesses. We believe that convergence will continue, as mobility departments are being stretched for dollars, and what used to be the travel department and HR department are now fused into one.
This year, Envoy released our first EMEA Immigration Trends Report. We’ve done U.S. surveys for nine years, and we’re very proud of this new report covering EMEA. One of the big things that came from our report was a belief in convergence, with many practitioners saying they want a singular solution for immigration, business visas and mobility tax.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on convergence, generally.
Singhal:
It’s an interesting time because there are fundamental trends playing out in our industry. I’ve connected with over 2,500 people from around the world – a lot of corporate mobility folks. There is an increase in convergence from a business perspective.
When you have a case like mine where the same talent that needs all these business visas to conduct business, typically different people are responsible for the functions. Global mobility has largely sat under HR. Business travel has largely been managed by travel managers that are typically under the account’s payables organization and procurement organization. Historically they’ve been disconnected, but we’re starting to see convergence happen.
The way I think about the global mobility function is what it’s meant to do, which is make sure it helps a company get the right people to the right place at the right time and keep accountability around them. Global mobility colleagues are getting pulled into areas that were traditionally within the realm of business travel managers. Convergence is definitely happening. But I feel for our corporate mobility colleagues because they’re being pulled into these situations with no additional resources. In some cases, resources are being trimmed down further.
And they’re being asked to take on more responsibility. We haven’t even gotten to remote work or remote hybrid work yet. There are a lot of compliance policy issues going on.
Burke:
Do you think it will extend to the mobility tax as well?
Singhal:
I think tax and immigration are two flavors of compliance for the same behavior.
The difference between tax and immigration is that with tax there’s no criminal liability typically, unless there’s fraudulent behavior. Non-compliance does not immediately equal criminal offenses.
But for most countries, flouting immigration laws is considered criminal at some level. Even though a tax problem doesn’t have criminality associated with it, there are still big dollars associated. The biggest risk is with the “most valuable” executives and employees with higher compensation.
Burke:
I want to get back to something you said, which we see in our EMEA survey, is the desire of the mobility professional on the corporate side for knowledge or help because they haven’t been trained in immigration. SHRM shows that of the 14 different disciplines that an HR professional deals with, mobility is usually the last one that gets attention, and it’s the least interesting to newer hires. There is a role, or request, from mobility professionals early on for training, and for their third-party vendor to help.
An ‘Envoy’ is someone who is your guide in a foreign land. At WERC, where does trying to educate corporate members around these developments fall on your hit list?
Singhal:
From my perspective, education is the top priority at WERC. We want to help our members and community become more educated in many ways to enhance their foundational knowledge in our industry but also have pathways to specialize in different ways within mobility.
Mobility is a compilation of different functions and activities, which allows you to create pathways for specialization in specific areas. There will be a big emphasis on up-skilling and re-skilling. Technology will play an increasing role, and there will be disruption. I consider it important to support re-skilling and deployment of talent in our industry.
Burke:
That’s great to hear, because this is a dynamic space. Things are very fluid, and so many people get into mobility without deep experience. Our EMEA survey shows the demographic pressures driving the need for immigration. Western Europe in particular is aware that they’re below the replacement rate and need immigration for sufficient labor. In the US, we always hear that there’s a short-term need for immigrants, especially STEM talent. It was interesting to see how loud and clear that message came through in a broader demographic (Western Europe) – that we just need more workers, period. Are you hearing that? If so, how does that impact WERC’s mandate around advocacy?
Singhal:
Yes, I would say in Europe and even APAC. Different APAC countries have different trends, but there is a pronounced need for bringing in talent from elsewhere. In the US we’ve always been open to attracting talent from around the world. That has fueled innovation and growth over time. I don’t know if it’s an expectation that will continue in some ways, despite contrary tightening of quotas and rhetoric.
Maybe US companies are not afraid of extending their footprints into foreign markets and stuffing their operations with locals in foreign markets. I think it’s a combination of a few things that translates to US-based folks not been quite as desperate.
Burke:
We need more workers.
Singhal:
Companies in Europe are quite focused on this demographic shift and the need to bring in talent from elsewhere. They have a demographic deficit building up, and it’s going to be a problem. Europe is seeing a comeback, and their markets are growing fast. Companies are scaling at staggering rates, and they’re looking for talent anywhere they can find it. Some countries are bringing talent back, but they are also attracting new talent. Some of the biggest companies are looking to diversify their supply chain outside of China and extend their footprint to other Southeast Asian countries.
Burke:
I think we see in our daily work two tectonic plates. There’s a political plate of nativism and a demographic plate pushing in the other direction. It’s going to be interesting to see how they reconcile. I think Western companies will look to get out of China and into India because it’s safer politically. India’s economy is also growing. It’s a fascinating time.
Let me ask you another question. In the world of immigration AI and technology spread, how do we leverage all the technology in our industry, where most of the total addressable market (TAM) is on the service side and so much service is delivered by entities without access to institutional money? A few times Envoy has tried an SaaS product, people say “I love it. I just don’t have the money.” Mobility professionals have money for the service but not the product. I wonder if that’s creating a loop where we’re not investing as much in tech as we could and cool companies are failing because all the money is on the service part of the TAM and there is no SaaS TAM.
Singhal:
That’s an interesting question. I’ve had a lot of conversations with leaders of various businesses in the mobility industry. There is an increasing desire among businesses and operations to have more technology because of the need for data security, data controls, more analysis and understanding of operations and driving efficiency within those operations. All that requires better technology.
But at the same time, most companies can’t make that kind of investment because of margins and the cost of doing business. Revenue compresses margins, and the cost of capital is the highest that it’s been in 10-15 years.
Burke:
There’s also an additional capital constraint since so many service providers can’t or won’t take institutional money.
Singhal:
Our industry is complex and complicated. Mobility is not one thing. It’s not one service provider, it’s not one function, it’s not one service line. It’s a whole series of things that have to come together and get coordinated to make it happen. Getting the right people to the right place in the right time takes a village. That complexity calls for some level of human involvement, more so than many other processes that have gotten automated through software over the last few decades.
There is a greater need for coordination, at this time and for the foreseeable future. At some point, the coordination function across all these service lines should and can be automated. A lot of the service delivery should be and can be automated. As long as we have people in the workforce and employees engaging in mobility, we’re going to have a need for people to help provide the service to them that helps them engage in mobility.
Burke:
We at Envoy deeply believe in that. As tech advances, automation advances, and we tout our AI. At some point it will be like a hospital saying, “we’ve got a great X-ray machine.” It will be expected. But what distinguishes healthcare isn’t who’s got the good x-ray machine, it’s the person operating it one the service side. There’s a need in our space to think like business people and leverage technology. But a by-product of that will be an underscoring of the centrality of the service professional who will be more adept, consultative, proactive and strategic because she no longer has to deal with what technology has taken off her plate.
Singhal:
That’s right. It’s basically leveraging tech to elevate the quality, efficiency and cost-effectiveness of your service.
Even if you look for parallels, look at adjacent industries. For every dollar of software sold by those industries, there’s $10 of services attached to it, on average.
Burke:
Are these implementation costs? Or labor?
Singhal:
No, external cost. A lot is implementation.
If you’re not thoughtful about what your process is and what role technology is going to play in that process, you’re going to destroy value. I’ve seen tech implementations happen without enough thought and planning. They’re essentially white elephant situations that become untenable and destroy the equity value of a company. Implementation, process design and managed services around software varies from market to market. It’s harder in Europe with stricter labor laws, but it’s easier to a U.S. operation to rely on outside resources and outsource something that’s important and needs to be done efficiently.
That model varies among companies and markets, but I don’t see the elimination of people-based services. Competencies are going to have to change, and the skills needed and the role people play will change. What they’re doing will evolve, but there won’t be a mass elimination of people.
Burke:
Thank you for sharing that, Anupam.
Singhal:
The more complex the software is, the more service dollars get associated with it. Consulting firms, IT services firms are the biggest money makers off their own software.
Burke:
Fascinating. We touched on the big WERC event coming up in October. What should people know about it?
Singhal:
This will be the 60th anniversary for WERC, and this is our flagship global event annually. This one will have so much innovation. For example, there’s an advocacy day where WERC is setting up meetings with committees in Congress. There is an immigration summit and an integration summit at the end of the conference. We will have labs, workshop sessions, and other really cool educational formats. There will be a lot happening by way of education and public policy. If you care about the industry, get involved! WERC is your association.
Burke:
Thank you, and fantastic. I’m really glad you’re at WERC.
Singhal:
My objective is to provide leadership with the dynamism and disruption that our industry is going through in an unprecedented way.
Burke:
Thank you so much. Thanks for joining me, Anupam. And thanks to all of you for tuning in to the latest edition of Immigration & Mobility Decoded.
Singhal:
Thank you.
Contact Envoy Global to learn more about strengthening your global mobility program and preparing for the future.
Content in this publication is for informational purposes only and not intended as legal advice, nor should it be relied on as such. For additional information on the issues discussed, consult an attorney at Corporate Immigration Partners, P.C., or another qualified professional of your choosing. On non-U.S. immigration issues, consult your Envoy representative, or another qualified representative of your choosing.
